I have a very unpopular opinion as an American regarding freedom of speech. I actually agree with Germany's restrictions on it.
Hate speech against an ethnic group is not allowed, and prosecutors have been investigating facebook since August because recent German hate speech has been connected with actual violence against the newly arrived immigrants. Merkel said to Zuckerberg, "You have to do something." He replied, "We need to work on this." Hmm, really? Facebook's own community standards say they remove hate speech. Apparently that's not happening.
One German reporter said, "American companies (facebook, etc) should not push their values on us." I was confused - OH, it means that facebook is very diligent about removing what Europeans do not consider to be pornography.
But facebook doesn't worry about hate as much as photos of topless women because perhaps they don't connect the hate speech with the attacks on immigrants. Or the stabbing of a pro-refugee Cologne politician.
Westboro Baptist Church's protests would not occur in Germany because public hate against a group of people is illegal. But Americans are very defensive about their freedom to hate people, calling Germany backwards and over-reactive to what happened in the war. I stand by the first amendment, but I understand why it doesn't fit in Germany. Americans don't get why the entire world doesn't have that amendment.
It is legal in Germany to protest Islamification, as long as you are careful not to incite violence or attack someone's dignity, which their leader did and now faces charges for calling Muslims "livestock" and "scum" on facebook. They mostly lawfully protest the Islamification of their culture rather than Islam itself, and that's the difference.
A newscaster was shocked silent when the person he was interviewing said, "Reopen the concentration camps and put the immigrants in them." A lot of people are saying that very same thing, and worse. Lots of it on facebook. It is illegal here to openly approve of--or deny the existence of-- the holocaust. Is that Germany overcompensating for its past or an attempt to save lives?
They say "Hitler didn't believe in freedom of speech" but they forget that before he shut it down, he abused it himself to brainwash people against a particular group of people. If Germany's restrictions on freedom of speech had existed then, I believe the holocaust would not have happened. Take a look at the comments in this article for some Merkel-hate. Those comments make me wonder if facebook actually receives pressure by Americans to NOT remove hate speech like their policy says they will.
Today Merkel said, about Paris, "They hate our freedoms." How ironic considering all the criticism I've read about Germany's restrictions on freedom of speech. Hate is universal, but when it leads to killing, well, Germany doesn't want to see that again, as we are at the moment.
I'm not saying Americans should appease terrorists by updating its laws, rather I think Germany has good reasons for its restrictions and facebook should respect them (and follow its own rules).
Charlie Hebdo related: Do the terrorists win when we cancel a parade? I honestly don't know.
Here is a tl;dr article explaining the priority of freedoms in Germany, the conclusion is a good summary.
As a somewhat humorous end to this, J feels his freedoms are unfairly limited in America, because he's not allowed to quickly change his clothes on a public beach. I try to tell him it's because someone might see his nakedness and that is illegal, but he says it's his freedom to change wherever he wants. And that all Americans should have this freedom. He actually changed his clothes on a beach when I first met him, before I could stop him: ) He hasn't done it since, but thinks Americans have an odd sense of what's allowed and what is not.
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9 comments:
LOL! That's funny about him changing his clothes on the beach. I'm so used to it being illegal I never thought of it from his point of view.
I agree with Germany that hate speech shouldn't be allowed on Facebook.... there are a lot of things that happen on Facebook that I don't agree with. I really think social media is being misused a lot lately.
I can kind of see things from both points of view. Germany wants people to respect each other and the planet, so they set restrictions. People in the US are used to being able to do whatever they want because of the freedom of speech thing so they don't like being told what to do. I don't like being told what to do, but I also have a strong respect for people and have the common sense to know the difference between right and wrong so I do those things without having to be told... It's all so confusing... my head hurts from thinking about all of it. I just wish people would be nice to each other. You wouldn't think that would be so hard...
Given Germany's past---it was Hitler's spread of hate via words that lead to the Nazi party's rise--I can't blame them. America has never dealt with such a situation and so we can't possibly understand.
Achieve, I hope you don't think my husband is a nudist - he's never done anything like that since and he *can* here if he wants to. Nudity is everywhere here, you cannot avoid seeing it in the store in newspapers and magazines and as billboards even, really shocking for me still. Kids don't have to wear swim suits til they're way-too-old IMO: )
Mare, you get it then. Not a single person saw it that way in the comments on those articles. In Germany's top satire magazine, the president said satire is holy above all else, and they make sure to make fun of Jews and Muslims equally, but they also try not to get blown up by pushing the limits.
The US Gov't sent me an urgent email telling me to contact them via the embassies and consulates if I feel I'm in danger. They gave me all these numbers to call, and email addresses, they want to make it very easy for me to connect with them. I don't feel in danger but I'm no longer hanging an American flag on holidays. Most people assume I'm from England which is fine for now: )
Of course I don't. It's just interesting to think of it from his point of view. I never thought of it before. I didn't realize Germans were so open with nudity since people here act like it's so horrible when really it isn't. :-)
Interestingly, I do not think that the average german feels like his/her freedom of speech is restricted in any way. Just like the US we have the constitutional right to freedon of mind and freedom of speech only it ends when it harms or jeopardizes others.
The articles of the german costitution build on one another. Freedom of speech being article 5, needs to be respectful of article one to four. If my personal freedom of speech jeopardizes someone elses dignity, safety and personal feedom it gets restricted. Think of it like the metaphor of spinning around yourself with you arms outstretched. You are free to do that as long as you don't hit someone else. If you do, that's where your personal freedom ends because you are interfering with someones elses right to be safe and unharmed (article 2).
Article 1[Human dignity – Human rights – Legally binding force of basic rights]
Article 2 [Personal freedoms]
Article 3[Equality before the law]
Article 4[Freedom of faith and conscience]
Source: http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_gg/
As for the nudity, nudity does not and should never equal sexuality. It's as simple as that. A naked child will only offend if nakedness is associated with sexuality, I think. But that's of course JMHO.
I 100% agree with you AmityBee!! That's exactly how I feel. I wish the people in the US would feel the same way instead of thinking that freedom of speech is free license to be cruel to each other. I just wish everyone would be nice lol. You wouldn't think it would be so difficult.
AB, you say it exactly like my husband - all of it: ) America does not have naked saunas because there is no separation between nudity and sex. Whyever.
Achieve, so you and I both would never say Je Suis Charlie, because we believe purposefully antagonizing a group is wrong, especially when it leads to police officers dying. From what I see, most Americans disagree with us.
Exactly! That's what is wrong with the U.S.!
I think a lot of people confuse the concepts of "fairness" (the rules and consequences apply equally to everyone) and "justice" (rules and consequences are appropriate for unique situations) "the way things outta work" (but things go off plan because there are too many variables)
I'm with Voltaire who said that he might disagree with what you say but would fight to the death for your right to say it. Or publish it. At the same time, I work in my own ways to make the world a place that is more kind, more just and more fair than the world we have now. I find that (barring crazy people, and there are plenty of those) people will act against other people when they feel that they don't have other choices. That's a huge generalization, of course. But think about it. No person who is treated with kindness, fairness, and justice in all things over many years will wake up some morning and decide to shoot people.
Ahh, but do we know anyone treated that way all the time? I don't. It doesn't stop me trying.
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