Thursday, November 12, 2015

Half Welsh, half ....Arabian?

I know that cameras can make delicate Arabians look powerful, but I didn't know it can work both ways. I honestly thought the horse I was to see today was an Arabian type, from her videos and photos.

It turns out she has an Arabian head, but that's it. She has the body and legs of a draft horse. Seriously I did not know that was possible, for a half Arabian to come out like that.




She's a sweet horse, a good girl, and riding her in the ring was simple - she never looked at anything twice, but looked at everything equally. Perfectly alert and happy, but not worried. They will have no trouble selling her. Her face was gorgeous and her eyes looked like she had black eye liner on, beautiful! Her neck was very long and finely shaped and set, and her hooves looked good, just huge. Her legs were tree trunks and not the willowy type trees.

The lady said not a word to me after we introduced ourselves, that was strange. She got the horse, groomed the horse, saddled, did the hooves when I asked, and said nothing. I had to ask a few questions to get her to say anything.

"Yes, she's papered half Welsh half Arabian." (!!!)

"No, we don't know why she was sold to us for resale, we don't ask, because sellers just tell you what you want to hear." (Like she did with me? "She's perfect for you!") Still, it would be nice if they had asked, and then given a potential buyer the option of believing the answer or not. Like when I bought Mara, I was distinctly uncertain of why they were actually selling her.

"No, we don't know how long she's been under saddle, or if she's been a broodmare."

Lots of mystery isn't a real problem for me, if the horse goes well. And she did.

She resisted my contact with her mouth and I realized I was doing too much with my hands, which wasn't much at all, just bending and such, and I gave her releases every time she reached down and forward. The lady said, "She likes you to do NOTHING with your hands." Interestingly, I'd noticed that on the sale video, the lady just set her hands on the withers and rode the entire arena like that.

The first step the horse took, I gasped, what a hulking thing she is - she shakes the earth with each hoof even at a walk. I said, "She's a semi truck!" The lady said, "Yes in comparison with Arabians."

I could tell the mare was bewildered by me because all she knows is how to go forward. No backing, moving her shoulders over, no moving her hips when I asked, no leg yielding, but she interpreted my signals correctly and with some effort managed a half step in each direction, forehand and hind end. So she's willing and understands pressure, but has never been asked anything like that before.

They say they're not motivated to sell her because she's a great babysitter for young horses on the trail, they just put her in front and she does her job. I can see that. She has a great work ethic. I'd love to see her as a carriage horse, because of her back.

She's definitely got a start on a sway back, it being very long and atrophied, and something new to me, some sort of saddle imprint on her back. Her spine sticks up and her back and belly sag below it all the way to her hips.

Now that I think about it, she's not the only horse that tricked me by photos this way. I also went to see a bay Quarab named Taco and when I saw him, what a shock, he was massive. Not tall but just huge. I said "I'm sorry but your horse is just too huge for me." They were surprised because he's short compared to most German horses. Somehow the camera lied. (I blogged about it back when..)

And try as I might, I couldn't get the camera to adequately show you all how drafty this horse is, or Welshy, unless you can recognize it better than I.

In the trot video you can hear her breathing hard, she worked up quite a sweat in there, but never had to be motivated to go forward, she's naturally a very forward horse. In fact when I asked why she is not suitable for beginners, she said it's because the horse does not stand still when you mount, she wants to be moving all the time. I said, "That takes 5 minutes to fix, *if* it's important to you to fix." She said that they get some pretty clueless buyers. Then I had fun talking about my first selling experiences, and she acted as if she completely understood.

I rubbed the mare's neck and chest afterwards and she was clothed with a cooler even though it's a warm day. I kept saying how good she smells, a healthy horse smell. I won't wash my hands anytime soon. (When I got home I asked J, "Do I smell like horse?" He said, "I noticed it as soon as you walked in here." Yah, good.)

I think the seller knows I'm not interested because of my comments, "Oh, she's so different from what I expected!" I'll tell her tomorrow that this horse is not my type, and ask if she has any Arab types for sale in the future because the dealer was a pleasure to meet. She did everything as I would have - she curried that horse's entire body vigorously, then did a little more than I would, combing her mane and tail. She was very careful in her warm up to let the horse just wander loose reined before she asked for anything. I asked, and she admitted she's a "Pferdewirt" - a certified horse professional, whatever that means.




Maybe you can see the Welsh features here?



Sweet girl wanted to sniff me as I took photos.



This photo shows the "saddle impression" I saw on her back - the sunlight is actually caught in it and you see it here as a horizontal white line on her back.



In this photo you can also see the saddle impression at the far right edge of the image. It could also be a ligament issue due to being a broodmare, I have no idea.



Mighty legs of steel and heavy round hooves.



Here again the light is catching in that dip in her back.



The spine protrudes - was she a broodmare?



You can see the spine along her entire back, but please note the thickness of her left arm. That's a powerful horse!



Not an apple butt, but something other than what I expected.



Under saddle you don't notice quite how long she is, but you can't help fall in love with that face.



Hands on her withers the entire time, this is not how I rode her.



Sweet eyes.



If I was looking to buy a pretty face....



She very agreeably cantered a long time after trotting around for a long time too. What a work ethic.

S told me that I judge horses too harshly by photos. I admit, I'm only able to discern certain things from photos. Certain things cannot be hidden. But apparently I'm no expert at judging a horse by video and photographs. Maybe I will be by the time I find a horse.








19 comments:

carol said...

I think she is a pretty horse, and really don't see the massive tree trunks for legs. I think sturdy legs and hooves are a attribute. Perhaps the odd back is from lack of working? And a dip in the back can be corrected with proper exercise too.

Good luck!, and Best Wishes,

lytha said...

Aha, then you've agreed with what I learned - the photos do not show the legs as they are. As I told the seller, the only things I am critical about are legs and hooves, and she certainly has good legs and hooves, although short steep pasterns, but I prefer them that way rather than too long and sloped. The back can be corrected with cavaletti exercises, which I am sadly unable to set up on our property, and have no access to. She is, as you say, such a pretty horse. How strange that the camera doesn't show what I saw.

hammerhorses said...

Ah, i love love love her! If i were in Germany loking for a horse, I'd snap her up! A little work will fix that top line... though i must admit a bias... 2 of my horses are Arabian (or mostly, 1 purebred, 1 95% Arabian) and my third horse is a Welsh section b and that made looks like exactly what I'd want if i crossed my mares to a Welsh or Arabian stallion!

lytha said...

SH, are you from Washington state? If so you're where I want to be to look for a horse: )

hammerhorses said...

Lytha, yes i am (bellingham area), lol! My arabians are cousins from the same breeder - Khemosabi and Raffles being the main bloodlines she used in her program. Look up khemostar arabians. One of my mares is by Ks Montana Bold Rush, i don't remember who my purebreds sire is... the brains are my main concern as I've got 3 human youngsters that have to be safe...

irish horse said...

She is cute (what a lovely eye), and a little sturdy can be a good thing!

I will say Major had a back like that when I got him, from lack of proper work and being young. With walking up hills (no cavaletti here, both under saddle and in hand) and a proper fitting saddle now he is nice and round...overly round sometimes!

But if she doesn't feel like a fit, at least you took a chance on a different breed and kept looking around. The right one is out there.

lytha said...

SH, I will look it up, what you suggest.

Irish, Major had a back...exactly like that? With a grove on either side of the spine but a huge belly? I know hills are also cavaletti but this horse seemed so extreme to me. I know, you're saying, "Just last week you looked at a bloated sickly rescue case." Yah, you're right.

Camryn said...

Yes, I see what you're speaking of in her back. My mare was similar, Vet couldn't pinpoint if it was due to poor saddle fit or the foals I knew she'd had. A good saddle & chiropractor did wonders. With that said, I'd definitely consider her.

irish horse said...

Major totally had the groove on either side, a spine that stood up (though his weight was fine, so not due to malnutrition) and a saddle "imprint" almost from muscle atrophy. The belly sag wasn't as apparent, but was just all lack of muscle, as he pulled himself along and didn't use himself correctly. I'm no trainer, but the months of walking all over worked wonders.

But not trying to convince you of course! You need the RIGHT horse, I know Major didn't feel right in the beginning, but that was me and nerves, somewhere I knew he was the right one. So they're out there, but I know the wait is seeming intolerably long when you just want your own horse again!

HHmstead said...

I like her! I agree - the back could probably be fixed!

Nicole said...

Ah a Welara, explains the color. She definitely has Welsh movement. She has lost a lot of muscle. Her back looks like my 22yr old draftx mare's. It can be fixed but it will take time. Our Morgan had a similar issue from ill fitting saddles, but eventually developed great muscles. The belly does look like a broodmare's.
I get what you are saying about the legs, my Cobs have a ton of bone and super feet. Hopefully this girl finds a great home. She sounds like she has a great brain.
Some Cobs have very Arab looking heads, definitely drew my attention the first time I saw them. Good luck on your search!

2 Punk Dogs said...

I could tell she wasn't the one by the third sentence in the third paragraph. Sounds like a weekend trip to Denmark is in order! :) It sounds like he's not at a dealer, which would be good since they never seem to have enough info. Good luck!

AareneX said...

So, what's wrong with sturdy, exactly? You don't want another fainting flower, after all.

Of course, for an endurance horse, "massive" isn't ideal. But it's not my deal breaker either, having successfully campaigned a truly enormous horse (she's not just tall, her muscles are big and hard to cool) I already know it can be done. You said that she feels heavy--could she be "lightened up" with good riding and cavaletti? Remember that the forest provides plenty of cavaletti, especially if you aren't afraid to go off-trail...and I know you love to go off-trail. :-)

And YOU have already lived with a grey, so you know THAT can be done. >g<

Stephanie Hammer, you are just a bit up the road from me in my home town! (I'm in Arlington now, but was born/raised a Bellinghampster) Maybe someday we will meet on the trail.

T said...

Ohh, pretty - I do like her, and wouldn't rule out reversing the saggy back with a better fitted saddle and proper exercise. I do see what you mean though, she's more sturdy than I'd imagine you're wanting if you are wishing for an Arabian type! Good luck finding the right fit for you , fingers crossed the right one comes along soon!

lytha said...

Aarene, this horse makes Fiddle look dainty, I'm telling you: ) I guess I'm ignorant about Welsh cobs, but now I know something.

Nicole A said...

She's the kind of horse I would kill to have if I was looking for another. I LOVE more bone in legs and bigger, round feet: they are sturdier and less prone to injuries than the toothpick legs and tiny feet that have been bred into almost every breed in the US. I know several draft/Arab crosses out here in our humid East Coast competing successfully in 50s and there is a Friesian/Arab out West that completed Tevis recently.

Section D Welsh Cobs are very drafty so I'm not surprised this shows in her physique. I can definitely note the large feet in her pics, though it's funny how the thicker bone doesn't show up as well.

I still say she doesn't have a swayback. She has muscle atrophy, either from a very poorly fitting saddle (if that's the case, her work ethic despite a horribly fitting saddle says worlds about her) or from general lack of conditioning. My old QH had a combo of high withers + true swayback. I was able to correct it considerably with lots of trail riding (on the flat because FL), a properly fitted saddle, correct dressage work and a balanced, low starch diet with added lysine. I wish I could attach photos so you could see his before and after. :) For the record I hate, hate, hate cavaletti work with a vengeance and that was never a part of my workouts with him.

Not trying to convince you at all; just wanted to add my 2 cents to the comments. :)Going with your gut feeling when it comes to horse shopping is the most important thing and I know you will find the horse for you out there!

lytha said...

I feel pretty stupid to have had no idea that Welsh Ds are cute little draft horses. I also can't believe how even my camera did not show the width of those legs. I often misuse the term cavaletti when I mean ground poles, I'm sure you've noticed. Remember that chestnut gelding I checked out that had the most powerful, strong build in photos, and true toothpick legs in real life - I thought I'd break him. I don't like to not be able to trust photos! Post the before/after photos on your blog!

Achieve1dream said...

I would snatch her up in a heartbeat if it were me and I don't even like mares!! I like chunky horses though. You know Chrome has a delicate face (not Arab, but not Friesian either) and a huge, chunky body.. actually she reminds me a lot of his body proportions. The back isn't an issue. My sister's QH mare was exactly like that. She had had one foal as far as I know, but they were feeding her sweet feed and whatever grass she could find and she was the low one in the hierarchy. Once we got her home, took her off the sweet feed, gave her hay and protein (one of the first signs of a lack of protein is back atrophy) along with exercise she looked great. Never had a problem with her back in the ten years we had her. I definitely wouldn't let that dissuade you because she definitely looks very out of shape and isn't being ridden correctly. With proper protein and exercise she would look perfect. Obviously since you don't like chunky horses that's probably all a moot point, but I just wanted to reassure you in case you see another horse like that. I LOVE her legs and hooves. I wish you liked chunky horses because I would love to see what she looks like with proper care and riding. Fingers crossed you have better luck at the next place. There HAS to be the perfect bay out there for you somewhere!

Becky Bean said...

Since you don't want her, can I have her? She matches Caspian perfectly. It's like a little teeny scaled down version (albeit with a much better head!) of him.