What the vet said
Almost a week late, the vet came out to take a look at the pony's skin issues. But a few days ago I found out myself what it was, and not the way I wanted to. Baasha suddenly has an outbreak of rain rot on his hip and I had been finding little tufts of hair coming loose with scabs on the pony. Definitely rain rot. Why didn't I notice right away? It's a very light case on the pony, he has mostly dandruff and strange bald patches, but enough to be contagious. I did feel those telltale bumps in a couple places - his forehead, his side, and all 4 legs. At first I thought he had several skin issues going on, but after doing more reading, I found out rain rot can manifest itself in lots of ways.
I heard the vet's diagnosis and for a moment, freaked out. The vet said, "This is a fungal infection." No, it's not! But then she asked me about other trouble spots on the pony and she listened to me as I said the name, "Dermatophilosis." And thankfully the vet agreed with my unprofessional diagnosis. She looked at Baasha's hip and said, "Yes, he'll be losing all that hair soon too." (We've gone thru this before, cuz we're from Seattle, Rainrot City.) The vet prescribed a wash we will have to use, and the owner said she'd go to the vet's office or pharmacy and order it immediately for both horses.
I hate that the pony brought this bacteria into our ground here, where it resides for years to re-infect horses every time it rains and they scratch on a tree. Oh, the tree is my idea where Baasha caught it - they rub on the same one.
What the contractor said
He would like €5,400.00 to build us a run-in shed. ($7,000.00) I was not expecting it to be that much, and that didn't even include flooring or a cupula (lol).
So we looked online at these mass-manufactured two-horse run-in boxes and even if we didn't order the stall doors, we'd be spending €3,000.00, plus flooring.
My final idea is to just ask neighbors where they got their shelters, some new ones went up recently near us and they look pretty good. We'll call tonight. Of course we don't have the money for this, but I hate the solution of just letting Baasha live alone.
What the horses say
Well that's new: the black pony is biting Baasha now. Twice this morning. Baasha doesn't care, he just wants his friend and is having a great deal of trouble with our daily separation training. Since the pony does not allow Baasha in the stall, we had a morning where Baasha was shaking from standing in the rain all night. My man and I towelled him off together, and the whole time Baasha wanted back out into the rain to be with his friend. Now that the two have rain rot, they'll be in blankets despite it being summer, and hot. This is complicated.
So it comes down to this: what's more important: physical health or mental health? In addition to rainrot and bite marks, will Baasha also start losing weight from being chased around?
Is it just the wrong pony? Well......We've come to the conclusion that Baasha may never find a friend that doesn't out-rank him. So, what to do.
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21 comments:
It's very early in the morning here, so my brain is working well enough to offer suggestions for the problem with Baasha and the pony. Only thing I can think of is to get him a goat or a donkey.
Jaz always has rainrot and it took me a long time to figure out all the ways it manifests. I have several things I use on it. I like to shampoo the areas with tea tree oil or MicroTec shampoo. Once clean, I sometimes use a mixture of Listerine and mineral oil on it or MicroTec spray, depending on how inflamed it is. Flies can make it worse, so if it's inflamed, I also apply a generous slathering of Swat.
And that's a LOT of money for a run-in shed. Mine was a little more than $1200 USD, and that included delivery.
You may want to price building it yourself with a kit. I'm with Leah, that is very expensive.
You need a pasture mate who is of the "let and let live" rank - Lily is a horse like that, and a few at our barn are too. They just accept everyone. You can put in anyone and the only thing they will do is protect themselves. But my experience is certainly limited in herd dynamics.
I think mental health is critical, bites are not bad, but if its escalating that's not good ,IMHO, especially at this point (where everything should be settled).
Ditto on the run in shed costs. Someone is making a lot of money on you.
It takes some time for horses to get used to living together in groups, and there are ALWAYS some small issues that have to be overcome. They'll work out their troubles if you're patient. Promise ! :)
We just got done paying in the $ 5000 range for 16 x 36, including cupola.
I hope it all settles down for Baasha. They are still new together. It's really too bad they didn't get the pony's skin treated before you got him.
What would it cost to pay a contractor to build one- more or less than the kits?
Oooh, you have some tough choices. No easy advice here, except what Leah Fry said - consider a goat. They are hysterically funny and very cheap to feed. Dixie is Baasha's opposite - very pushy and alpha - and she adores her goat.
I am shocked at how much a run in costs. Are building supplies that high or is it the labor? Two able bodied people can definitely build a 3 sided run in. I'd hire out putting in the support posts and do the rest myself.
Jason beat me to everything I was going to say. We payed $5K for the run-in we just had built, and it is bigger than the one you are building as it is 16 x 36.
I would give it some more time for Baasha and his pony to work out their herd dynamics. Hopefully things will make their way to "easy" instead of complicated with the horses soon!
i would not let the pony take over the barn. screw that. shoo that pony out and lock the pony out at night. lock basha in at night. is there some other configuration of the 'barn' or perhaps pay someone to bump out the barn and create a larger run in / or 2 stalls or something. an addition. can someone build you an addition?
Oh drat it lytha!
I wanted that to work out for all!
Pony is a bit pushy, claimed B's stall for his own and gave Baasha the crud..ooou. Not too good a start.
Hard choices, yea.
What about a donkey?
I do know this; having Pantz mare now, with Wa again...feeding is a problem and her leisure is too..Pantz shoo's her around(she could loose a bit of weight though).
I am about to go to having Pantz separate from Wa/but next to her, in another field again.
Could you do that? Temp fence an area for critical times...when Baasha needs his stall? But the pony could be nearby...That is soo much for a run in...man! That is the quote I got, for a nice small dressage arena( drainage trenches/rock/sand)!
Hope your neighbor, that has one you liked, lends light on the subject!
Hope something gets better FAST!
Kac
Leah, thanks for letting us know what they *should* cost! I sure miss those products you mentioned, I don't know of the german equivalents yet.
Breathe, it would be nice to find a horse like you described. We've been advertising since May and this is the first one who seemed to fit. Or maybe not.
I ask myself if Baasha's mental health is actually better now. He is stressed a good deal of the time because he is being pushed around, not allowed to get as close as he'd like to the pony (or he'll get bitten), and then there's the 5 minutes per day of separation, which is associated with me, so I am not a good thing to him lately.
Jason, it was nice to hear a comparison price for American workmanship: ) Things are just more expensive here - horsey things.
FV, our contractor wants 7K$.
Funder, I know goats are entertaining, but if you could see our property you'd realize why it's impossible. Our property is U shaped and very very steep. It would cost more than 7k$ to try to build a goat proof fence.
Building supplies that are of good quality do cost that much - hundreds per support column. Our next door neighbor did his best to build a run-in shed, it cost him 1500Euro, and it was destroyed by the severe winters a few years later. Sad!
I tried to get the contractor to just do the support columns and roof, and that would have been too much even, *sigh*. (We think alike cuz that was my first reaction to that price - let's just get the parts we can afford!)
Melissa, it took me a while to wrap my brain around the part: 16X36. Is that feet? How big are feet again?hehheehe
Amy, I wish I could just shut the door, but I cannot shut my horse in the stall even if it's raining, he tried to break the door down (and halfway succeeded) last time we tried that. He cannot stand to be away from his pony.
We've looked at our barn and tried to figure out a way to expand it but we have this big propane tank next to it and it requires a 3 meter distance from anything. So that leaves the idea of building a 2 horse run-in, and you read about that already.
Kacy, I think a donkey would be a great idea - it might actually share a stall and it wouldn't try to break it down like the pony has been. The pony is very robust, and he leans his entire body weight into the walls and rubs on them, and I'm sure he'll take the whole building down someday. Basically our stall is just out of service right now!
And as to the separation, I do have moveable fences and I do keep the horses separated at night and that's no problem cuz they can hang out over the fenceline. But Baasha will absolutely not go in his stall because he's not "with" his buddy. Also, I hate to leave the pony in the rain too!
I like how you are learning as you go. Some suggestions, maybe too late on this one if you keep the black one, but if you don't, make sure a new horse has been vet approved before you put them together.
Another, how about a female, maybe a burro?
Yikes! Seems like you are being punished for your good deed! A few thoughts:
- We have an older horse who is currently an only horse. Maybe Baasha is different, but after several bad experiences, we (horse and family) decided there are far worse things than being an only horse.
- Other horses seem to instinctively pick on an older horse. Our horse lost a lot of weight and condition because of this (it happened slowly and gradually) and we decided it was not acceptable.
- Beware of goats, they are incredible escape artists.
I had sticker shock with both of my barns. Considering how quickly horses destroy them, you'd think they'd be less expensive. I'm sorry the two horses aren't getting along as harmoniously as one would hope. I'm stressing out over getting a new dog that might turn everything upside down with Midge.
I feel for you Lytha.
I felt similar with the two horses we tried out here recently. One was too alpha, Etta Bay, with Apache and the other, Bella, was too alpha with humans. Bella did similar 'black pony tricks' with rubbing on walls and fences and was in the process of destroying them, along with a brand new fly mask. She also chewed on trees and peed and pooped in the stall. Very rude!
Apache does none of those things, so Bella was already working her way to a swift goodbye, even if she hadn't bucked off my son.
If it were me, I'd keep Baasha as an only-horse. Like others have said, there are much worse fates to be had...which is part of what you are currently experiencing.
And add to that, all the complications, hassles and expense. The pony seems like a good idea, but he doesn't seem healthy for Baasha, either physically or mentally. Baasha obsession with his pony isn't a good thing either.
I would never allow another critter to move in and push out the current critter. That's just not fair. And then to give poor sweet Baasha the creeping crud. Horrible.
I think it's ultimately up to you and what you're willing to allow as Baasha has no choice in the matter and seems willing to put up with anything that his pasture mate throw his way.
You've got to be the good Mama and do what is in Baasha's best interests.
~Lisa
ps I love the idea of a donkey, though. Or even a llama :)
Chiming in late here:
Goats are cheap and fun, BUT you have to build amazing goat-proof fences to contain them--not necessarily cheaper than building a new barn!
Another horse? Bashaa is ths most meek and mild boy that I know--finding a "less alpha" horse than him might take years!
Donkey? Llama?
We are building (slowly) a kit barn this summer. Is that available to you there? We're using Noble http://www.noblepanels.com/stalls-barns.htm but of course shipping would be hideous to Germany. Argh.
Anon, If there is a next time, we will try to arrange for a vet check first. We can use our experience as an example of why this is important to us. A mare might kick the crap out of him when she gets moody, but one of Baasha's best friends back home was a mare and they were always touching, they couldn't get close enough to each other. It was adorable. A donkey is a great idea, and there are a few farms around here with donkeys, so I'll start asking.
Fourwilkies, thank you for your thoughts. I do feel like I'm being punished for something that was supposed to be the right thing to do. I'm stressed about this almost constantly. I was interested in your comment that old horses get picked on - I was wondering if my horse has a "victim mentality" and I believe it now, after so many horses have chased him around. The odd thing is, the pony is older - he's 30. But he's as strong as an ox and almost pulled my man off his feet yesterday while leading. We've finally got Baasha's weight back up because he can eat in peace here, and going into Winter I can see that falling apart if he's being pushed around.
Agreed, we have no way of containing a goat on this property, it's too convoluted. It's hard enough to keep them in when you have a relatively flat space to work with.
NM, after explaining the phrase "sticker shock" to my man, we both had a good laugh this morning at the clever way you put it. My goodness I hope your pretty barn holds up, and I hope you find the right dog for your family and Midge!
Lisa, I didn't realize you'd tried out *two* horses. Isn't it sad to see your horse pushed around by the friend you got for her/him? It's heartbreaking to me - I tried to go pet Baasha today and he jumped away from me because I didn't know the pony was behind me, making faces.
I have to laugh at your comment that she peed in the stall, how rude! Baasha never learned how to hold it until he's outside, no, I have a pig. But get this, the pony BACKWASHES everytime he drinks, making a clean water trough filthy in one day.
You are right, both physically and mentally - Baasha's not in a good place right now. I swear he seems happiest when there is a fence between them and they graze like that.
"The creeping crud" - *LOL* I will now use that for rainrot, it's perfect!
Aarene, that is the conclusion my man came to the other day, "We'll never find a horse out there that is submissive to Baasha." I said, "Well, it would be one in a million..." like you said, "years."
A donkey would be great, I'll ask around.
You're building a barn? Hey, where are the photos? The 2-horse kit here that we liked cost 3000KEuros without doors.
~lytha
I would get a donky..wat about those shetland type ponies? people have those everywhere here. I heard they were a bit snappy towards people but I don't know how that works with other animals.
It's amazing how much they charge here for things. I've wanted several things done to our place but said no thanks when I found the cost out. It's insane here for sure.
Im sorry Baasha is dealing with that. It may not be worth it to keep that other one there if he is causing all those problems.
Will the pony accept hotwire fencing so that you can keep them "close but separate"? We've got Hana and Fiddle in adjacent pastures right now because Hana was FAT and Fee was THIN. Now they can see each other all the time, but they can't swap food piles.
Would something like that work for you?
Sonya, speaking of "snappy" - the pony nipped me tonight! I was giving him some apples and petting him, and he freaking bit my coat! I was so shocked, I'm not sure his owner will believe me, cuz they said he doesn't bite or kick. Maybe I'm overdoing the apples? *lol*
Aarene, I do keep them separated overnight, and this works well, I can see Baasha relax as I separate them. But we still have the problem of no shelter. Right now Baasha has his winter blanket on cuz it's been raining for 10 hours straight! I was feeling sorry for the pony and that was when I got nipped. Hard to feel sorry after that.
Hey Beth,
i'm sorry that you have all that problems with the black-one. But i still think - against many positions here - that a second horse/pony is better than a dissimilar animal. It's like the bunny - guinea pig thing: They surely get along with each other and communicate somehow but they simply speak different languages. As a human, i wouldn't want to live with apes which i'm not able to talk to. Sure, they would be a nice companionship and maybe i could live with them, but they never replace a human.
And i think that i definitely don't need to tell anyone here, that horses are gregarious animals and need each other...
Incidentally, nobody can promise that you won't have the same problem with a donkey!
I guess the main problem is that they fight (more or less) for the resource "Barn". There is only one of it and the one which exists is small and has a tiny door. A good opportunity to show who is the boss on the pasture. This behaviour is natural. The open-barn thing is always difficult.
My thought is, that if both had their own stall (or a big one without a door and therefor one side open), it will be less stress for the horses (or just for the black one who obvisiously thinks he has to demonstrate the boss every day...) and they would get relaxed along with each other.
I think this has to be tested. Not til then i would give up the HORSE/PONY-companion-project. Maybe you could find a used "Weidehütte" or build a cheap carport and trial and error?!
By the way: How lived the black-one before? Is he used to share his stall?
And - beside the mare - Did Baasha lived in a group in U.S.? How was it then? And how big was the shelter in Cronenberg where Baasha had his first negative experience with other horses in germany? Maybe the problem was analog?
I know that you try so hard to make Baasha happy and bringing the black-one was the first step! Please don't give up, i know that you will find a solution!
Okay.. writing this comment took me almost an hour...
I hope my english is understandable and nobody feels defensive in his person...(my experience is, that such topic always brings emotional reactions on...) it meaned no harm...
greets
sonja
Sonja,
Thanks for asking about Baasha's history. And thanks for reading everything carefully, I can tell you spent a lot of time reading as well as writing. Don't worry, we'll keep trying. I'm not giving up finding him a companion pony. We have not taken our ads down from the feed stores and websites.
We have to send the black pony away because he's mean to Baasha. (And he bit (nipped) me again today, that makes twice.) But I'd keep a biter at this point if he were nice to my horse!
I must point out your animal analogy flaw - there is a much greater difference between humans and animals than animals and animals. For example, we can talk, hehe. Your analogy would be better written so: I'd rather be stuck with a person who speaks my own language and understands my cultural behaviors than someone from a foreign country/former time with completely foreign mannerisms. But you see where my analogy ends up, right? *lol*
I agree with you that you should try to match species. The point is that it may be easier to find a donkey who is kind to Baasha than a horse. My preference would be a horse though, just cuz horses are God's finest creation.
You're right about open barns being difficult! Most people solve their herd issues by stalling/separating for the night so that each horse gets his own food and none lose weight.
(this comment is divided into two parts cuz it's too long for one.)
(continued)
My first plan was to build a three sided run-in shed (that is what we call Weidehuette) with one wall completely open, but with a divider in the middle. I've seen this work with paired horses with one dominating the other, they just switch sides often as they eat hay. That was plan A.
Plan B was a carport, cuz man they're cheap! We found them at Max Bahr for 500E, huge ones. But then we talked to professionals (schreiner) and they say horses will eventually tear them down.
Our next door neighbor built his own Huette and in a matter of a couple years it was dust, due to weather and horses rubbing on it. Scary. We need something heavy duty.
Plan C will be in a future post, stay tuned.
Before: The black pony was in a field with a Shetland that he bossed around. I know this because the owner mentioned, "Now the Shetty has some peace." HM.
Note: The black pony and Baasha have still never touched. Except the teeth in Baasha's skin, but that doesn't count. I was hoping for a more "touchy" relationship.
Background on Baasha, working backwards from present:
8/2010 - My horse is home, and is no longer thin, but has a companion who could make him that.
9/2008 - In Cronenberg, the lady said, "Oh he's so thin! He'll look better soon here." She had 4 other horses who made sure he did not. There was a place at the Heuraufe (hay feeder) for everyone but Baasha. In fact, he was so thin when we finally brought him home that I cannot believe I ever sat on him.
7/2008 - As he entered quarantine before his flight, the lady said, "Oh, he's so thin! He'll look better in 6 weeks after his quarantine, I promise you!" (And he did, in fact, cuz he was alone those weeks, in a box stall eating alfalfa (luzern).)
4/2007--7/2008 - He lived in a group of 5 horses before coming to Germany, but I'm not sure about the feeding details, except that my friend kept emailing me, "Your horse is getting skinny, I'm worried." She did her best to separate him for feeding.
Before that he was alone for 2 years because the one other horse at the private barn would attack us so I asked for a private field for Baasha. This is when he started looking better, because he refuses to defend his food and was quite thin.
So, in all, he's had 2 years alone time before Germany. But during those 2 years I took him out with other horses often (weekly), including going camping with his mare (and your brother, the mare's rider) in the mountains.
About Baasha's former life - the first 10 years we kept him in big stables so there were always various horses around and never an issue. (Well, he was severely buddy sour but aren't most horses?)
Thanks for caring about my horse, and we will keep trying!
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