Shock
I was happy to see that lady Elizabeth getting her horse ready next to Danny, she’s really nice.
I pulled Danny out and tried to pick his LF hoof and he kicked at me! I couldn’t believe it! He pinned his ears, rammed into me, and kicked out with a hind leg. I rammed back into him, pushing him away, and he got mad and kicked out again. I yelled at him QUIT! And yanked on his halter (being careful not to grab the panic snap which I usually do and it just releases the horse!).
Shock: Elizabeth steps up and says, “HEY! You can’t treat that horse like that! He’s just having a bad day!”
She started caressing his face, talking baby talk to him, saying, “Oh Danny you’re ok, you’re ok!”
She told me, "Horses are people too, you have to understand that!" Too late I had a good reply to that, "On my bad days, I don't endanger someone's life."
Then a lady needed to lead her horse down the aisle, where we all groom, so she asked me to move Danny over. I tried, and this time he kicked out with both hinds together. He was pissed! I yelled at him again and pushed him over.
Elizabeth ran over and held a carrot up to him, saying, “You have to just distract him when he doesn’t want to behave. Give him a carrot.” (omgosh) I yanked the carrot out of her hand and said, “HE DOESN”T GET A CARROT FOR KICKING!” and I gave the carrot to her mare instead. I’m sure at this point Elizabeth thinks I’m the most cruel person she’s ever seen around horses.
The lady was still waiting and I told her, “I have no idea if you can safely pass. I can put him in his stall to be sure.” And Elizabeth said, “Oh yes, just put him in his stall!” so we did. Two ladies shoving a naughty horse into a stall to avoid an accident with a passing horse. I felt ridiculous but I had no way of ensuring her safety.
I started to put the saddle on and Danny started biting the air, pinning his ears. I said, “That’s it, I’m not doing this. I’m not going to let THIS HORSE put me in the hospital, or cripple me for life!” (Because I don’t exactly have fun or learn anything on him. If I’m gonna be crippled by a horse, it’s gonna be one that I actually wanted to ride.)
Elizabeth said, “Oh just be gentle with him – here, I’ll do it.” And she saddled him. I was glad to not have to do it, and realizing the entire time that he could really nail her and she might even be permanently injured. But she wanted to do it, it’s her choice.
I was able to get his bridle on with no problem and I led him to the arena and jumped on him with no problem. Then I asked my trainer to ride him. I had to know, can anyone ride this horse well?
Disgrace
I carefully observed how she was able to get him to collect. She did what looked like heavy see-sawing but was probably more like heavy forward and back with her inner hand. She mostly trotted him around in circles and didn't do transitions. He braced and pulled, and she couldn't help pulling back when trying to transition to stop him.
Although he was very heavy with her, but actually managed to drop his head from his normal nose-in-air position.
After 10 minutes I got on but could not accomplish that. She told me to trot around her and left hand right hand left hand right hand, she kept telling me more left, more right, over and over. It made no impact and nothing was changing. Just like our last lesson, we were getting nowhere.
Finally I decided to ignore her for a moment and go back in my mind to training Baasha – how did we teach him this? Well we started with standing still, or walking. No trotting until the horse understood the cue. Then it worked, I did it! He dropped his head and walked a complete circle politely, lightly on the bit, seeming to understand. The trainer said nothing. This is where a real trainer would say, “Wow, you did it! Good work, so, what did you do? Do you remember exactly what you did?” Instead she just said, “OK trot and see if you can keep that.” So we lost it. That was it for the lesson.
At one point I had him at a standstill and I asked him to drop his nose. He didn’t, so I tapped with my heels. I kept asking, wiggling the reins, tapping with my heels, and he just didn’t know what I wanted. I was at a loss. Then the trainer said, “You know what, you really are brutal sometimes.” !!! OK this might have been rough, what I was doing (even with a snaffle, no spurs, no whip) but the thing is, where was the instruction? Where was the alternative idea from the instructor?
At one point we were standing still, I was taking a moment to breathe deeply and let the horse relax into a halt, something he hates to do, and she said, "Let him chew the reins out of your hands." That is a great idea, so I did, all the way down to the buckle. And he really did relax! I was happy and then she suddenly snapped at me, "Not ALL the way down! Now look, you have no reins."
She gave up on me after about 15 minutes. She just started staring at the other riders riding around on Spanish horses, whipping them with every stride to get a Spanish walk, and Fresians on the ground being trained with whips to Spanish walk.
My trainer was done with me although our lesson was not finished, she said, “Just ride around” because she had given up.
Well if I wasn’t going to get anything from her, I wasn’t able to do much because the arena was full, so I just walked circles around an absent instructor, until she finally went and sat down with her friends, leaving me.
5 minutes later she told me from where she was sitting, "Praise him", which I guess means my lesson is over. Wow, I’m so not used to having such a lack of feedback! This instructor has no investment in teaching me at all. She probably never wanted to do a half lesson at 8 pm because I cannot understand why I’d be “taught” with such apathy unless she wants me to quit.
I put the horse away without a word, swept the aisle, and pulled her aside, handed her the money, and told her “I give up. I cannot ride this horse – apparently I’m not good enough.” She said, “Well maybe you just don’t fit with this horse – maybe you need to find another.” And I said, “Yes, and strangely, I’ve ridden many horses in my life and never had this problem.”
I wanted to say, “YOU SUCK” but I just couldn’t do it, I couldn’t be cruel to her. I wanted to say, “You have to share some of the blame for my lack of progress!” I did say, “I need to find a horse that is not a school horse, being ridden by different people every day.” But then I recall at another barn, I had a great time riding a very sensitive, light school horse. I just had to quit because they wouldn’t let me ride without side reins. Ugh.
So many barns, so many trainers, and nothing of quality. I recently tried to find a Phillipe Karl or Branderup trainer nearby and they are all over an hour away from me.
I cried again on the way home, thinking how this entire barn's opinion of me is the "brutal American" and how I failed at my attempt to ride the horse well, and teach him to be light. I thought of all the times people have said "You're a good rider" and how I always thought, "Well, in comparison to someone who doesn't know how to ride" but now I wonder.
My husband consoles me that I’ll have my own horse soon, and I’ll be busy riding it. I just don’t know.
34 comments:
You're actually paying for this? Blimey.
Perhaps I take things too seriously, but I found myself wanting to pull my hair out reading about horse people over there. Gah! That poor wretched beast, it is no wonder he is so angry when he comes out of his stall. It's not you; it's the inconsistency in his miserable life of being in a stall and all different kinds of riders and who knows if his saddle fits. He's not having a bad day, he's having a bad life, and that's why horses become dangerous, but you surely don't baby them for it. Ugh! Training barn from hell really, for all involved. I wish I could give you a hug and really, even the poor wretched beast. (**runs of screaming and pulling hair in frustration**) I'm going to take a walk down to my barn, try not to pull my hair out, and put this frustration into a prayer that a proper door will open up for you.
And perhaps the PWB has arthritic changes in his neck or spine that make softening difficult for him. Who knows what years of bracing have done to him? You are not a failure.(Thoughts that came to me while walking down to the barn and back with my two doggies.)
That sounds like a horse that has been mistreated all the time without any real leadership. I'm with your hubby. Hang in there.
Dan
Oh Beth! That has to be so hard!
I sure sounds like that poor horse is sore, tired and spoiled! Someone that does not discipline for kicking!! Grrrr so frustrating! Bad manners on the ground, bad manners under saddle.
Not your fault girl, that woman is awful!
Things are so different over there!! I think you are getting horse "culture shock"!! Hang in there! Your husband is so sweet!!! I sure do hope you have your own horse soon!
Oh and OMG are all Farriers crippled over there! with these bad mannered spoiled horses!!!! Cant imagine haveing to do ones feet!
You are much more forgiving than I am, the behavior of that instructor is unbelievable. I would have told her exactly what I thought and why I wouldn't be coming back. Or at least telling her we certainly weren't compatible. It also shocks me when you talk about how Germans treat the horses. I have a good French friend and she certainly doesn't tolerate those behaviors so it isn't continent wide.
I hope you find a horse you can happily ride soon.
I'm glad you're leaving that barn! Sheesh! Reward a horse for being vicious... yeah makes sense *rolls eyes*
We've had differences of opinion before at a lot of barns, remember.. so it's not just Germany. hahaha Maybe it'll be moreso in Germany... but I'm just remembering a lot of other barns we've clashed at. I think it is a very personal thing, like how one raises one's children.. and people are very passionate about it.
Praying you find your horsey place over there, even if it's just your place. There's no place like home. :)
-your sis
OMG reading your posts about riding in Germany makes me want to scream, at the trainers that is. Are they all complete morons??? My biggest pet peeve is when people treat horses like people, they are NOT people. They are horses, who should be treated like horses. And giving him a carrot for bad behavior? Do any of these people have basic animal knowledge? You don't reward bad behavior. If I'm this frustrated just reading about your experience, I can't imagine how you feel.
Holy Cow, She sounds like she has a stick up her rear end, (sorry to say, likely because you are an american)
I am so sorry you are feeling so down! I honestly don't know what else to say, :(
Tara
zoe, after the fact, i thought, i should have hopped off the horse, asked her to hold him a second, and walked out, gotten in my car, and driven off, never to return! hahaha! bye bye! but i shouldn't avoid confrontation. and i'm getting good at saying "i quit" to riding instructors now. ok, not good. just practice.
kitty bo, thank you so much for understanding and thank you for the prayer. i appreciate it very much. bad life indeed - the horses don't get turnout for the most part, it's a dark stall, and a lesson, every day. i was probably the only person who let him sniff the ground in the corners of the arena, he loved doing that and i loved giving him a little "freedom" for a few minutes, to sniff all he liked. what is PWB?
dan, thanks for that. i showed my husband what you said.
reddunnappy, thanks - i hope you remember the last barn i quit, i found the same babying of the horses when they were being naughty. i'm just stunned by this! the western, NH philosophy is slowly seeping over here, but not fast enough, IMO - because it will teach ground manners and enforce boundaries. i see it in my horse magazines, books such as one called "be strict" written by western trainers. ok people, read!
appydoesdressage, thank you. i wonder what you would have said! i know there are good trainers here, they are just very hard to find in the multitude of crappy ones.
becky, thanks for the prayers. this is sure a rough time for me. i'm glad you are reading my blog even when it's a whole lotta words.
heather, oh, if only you'd been there, you could have said, "no, no they are not 'people too' - they are large dangerous animals!" or something eloquent. thank you for empathizing. my husband sat down with me and just listened to the whole story patiently as i unloaded on him. i think you can tell how upset i was! may i ask how you found my blog?
You were a lot nicer to that horse than I would have been. Call me "cruel Canadian" but when a horse threatens me, with one foot, let alone two, not once but several times that horse is probably going to receive what I call a "heart massage" (boot to ribs, heheh. I never said it was going to be nice but when your a farrier on occasion one needs to employ these tactics)
Poor horse, what an idiot lady giving carrots for biting. That only reinforces his awful behavior. Sounds like hes had an obvious lack of leadership.
I would run, run far away from the people who feed nasty horse behavior like automatic vending machines.
This whole entry makes me so mad for you. It's sooo so backwards that they think YOU are the cruel one. The more I read of your entries and others over there, the more I think I just could NOT do it. What a terrible instructor. What a waste of time. What a poor quality of life for the horse... no wonder he's a rank bastard. Ugh. :(
Lytha, PBW=Poor Wretched Beast
Ah, that was a sucky lesson for sure, and you were awfully patient to stick it out.
Why not get the other horse you liked vet checked, get it out of the way. Maybe you can negotiate the price of the check into the purchase price (before they increase it some more!). How much does the vet check cost over there? (You may have answered me before, but I missed it).
Chin up, try and move past this as best you can(I can see how upsetting this was. Get your man to make a little cart for Bellis and you and Eryn can teach him to drive (slowly). :)
You take care and try and keep an open mind towards other breeds - I bet there are some Arabians out there that are disguised in another breeds body!
Kay
That poor horse is not happy. And nothing you can do will help, as all the other days of the week he is being pulled and prodded the way the instructor wants, and rewarded for bad behavior! I'm sure with consistent, fair work (like you were trying to give him!) he could be a nice horse. But that instructor sounds awful, and I'm so glad you finally walked out and are not going back.
OH. MY. GOODNESS. What a complete and total pathetic mockery of a trainer that woman is!
SO sorry you are going through all this to get to ride. I just want to teleport you to my place, stick you on one of my Arabs, and take you out for a nice ride.
What a horrible experience you had! I can't believe they way they treated you and the way the horses are - who would want to ride in that environment? Rewarding a horse for behaving that way? Yuck. I feel sorry for those horses and for you.
I sincerely hope that you can find a new horse for yourself or at least find a barn with some people that know what they are doing!
I'm impressed that you stuck with it too. I really cannot handle having people telling me how to behave, think and feel. First off, they are assuming that their way of behaving, thinking and feeling is superior to your way. It's as good as having the person tell you that they think you are ignorant. So, as soon as Elizabeth started in, I would have walked. Offering one's help is one thing, but criticizing your every move is another. But I'm guessing you wanted to honor your appointment. And then even after the trainer let you down, you probably wanted to do what's best for the horse. That's true horsemanship -- making choices to help the horse despite all the humans around you telling you that you are wrong.
Perhaps she kicks and bites people when she is in a bad mood. Yet another reason to move on.
Getting him to soften is a long journey, and you shouldn't give yourself a hard time for not getting there with him.
The teaching style there is atrocious overall. This is supposed to have some joy for you, not despair.
Let's hope the right horse is waiting around the corner...
I'm thinking back to that other barn I rode at, how I approached the arena in the rain with an umbrella and the trainer quickly yelled "Don't come close the the arena with an umbrella!" Right - there might be a danger of horses getting acclimated to new and different things! They also said absolutely no flash photography because the flash might startle a horse. So apparently they cannot take their horses to horse shows --ever. *pfft*
Then the horse tried to run me over while I was leading her one day, and when I yanked on the rope and said "Quit" this group of ladies watching said, "no, no, just let her go, let her go!"
I'm sure you guys remember that but it just emphasizes to me the bad luck I've had finding barns in my area. This is the 4th I've had to leave. (2 I was just witnessing a lesson and couldn't stand it, 2 I was on the weekly roster.)
For fun, I'm going to do some riding stable review translations for you. I will NOT pick and choose, I will be honest and see what the results are in general.
Eryn, if you're reading this..... well Eryn and I have both had this happen:
We're having a lesson and the instructor yells out "Car" and everyone rides to the opposite end of the arena (except me and Eryn, not understanding this weirdness). Then suddenly a car pulls up and our horses spook. OK then, that is why we were warned! A car is a very scary thing to a horse during a riding lesson! *rolls eyes*
Lol about the car. That poor horse. Clearly he's stuck in a crappy situation and what a cheek your instructor has then marking you as the cruel one. It says a lot about her training and management if the horses behave like that! I don't know how she expects the horse to be soft by sawing on his mouth either. If he never gets a chance to be turned loose...
Fingers crossed the right teacher comes your way!
Elena
Lytha....tsk, tsk, tsk.
It's obviously you're just a terrible person.
I always feed my horse when he would double-barrel out of grumpiness. You must have been out of the states too long - you probably think you're supposed to give them apples.
Such an amateur.... apples if for striking out.
Carrots for kicking, apples for striking out, and Alfalfa & Molasses for horses that ram you out of the way.
Yeesh.
I can tell you have a lot to learn.
That is all just pathetically sad and frustrating! And offering a carrot to a naughty horse for kicking at someone? Ugh! That's just stupid!!
Would they give candy to a spoiled child for trying to punch them in the face??
I'm flabbergasted!
I can understand the apathy and laziness of the instructor, though. My first horse came with a handful of lessons from an instructor at the barn I bought her at, but I paid $50 per lesson, and the only thing I brought away from those lessons was 'Heels down" which she hammered into me over and over. But I never learned how to trot or canter and she would often just leave me for 20-30 minutes to ride my new horse in circles bareback in the round pen. It was boring and the instructor failed miserably at teaching me anything truly useful, especially as a brand new horse owner!
If you go back there to ride those lesson horses and have that "instructor" work with you again (and I use the term 'work' loosely", I will be very disappointed in you.
You are so much better than that and don't deserve to be ignored, treated unfairly and to be criticized for handling a horse safely and properly.
~Lisa
Wow....Just WOW!
Putting the horse's issues aside, I agree that THAT instructor just SUCKS. It seems to me she spends more time critiquing you than trying to teach you anything. My attitude would be..."if you don't like what I am doing, then teach me a different way." (which she obviously wasn't doing).
Also, if she thought you were so awful with this horse, then why wasn't she present while you were getting him ready (it seems to me that if she knows him "better," this would be something she would do)?
I consider myself a pretty passive horse owner...and by that I mean I don't disipline horses probably nearly as much as I should. There are two things, however, that will get a harsh remprimand from me. Those two things are biting and kicking. No horse, under any circumstances, no matter how he is feeling, has the right to do that to a human. EVER. (....and they certainly won't get a carrot for it).
I feel badly for you, and I hope you can find "your" horse soon. :-D
Lytha, I can't exactly what other horsie blog I found yours on. I remember just blog walking the various horse blogs one day, and stumbled upon yours. I've been following for a while, just rarely comment. I've had horses my entire life, but had to sell my "forever" horse just four months ago because of finances. :( I try to stay connected to the horse world through blogs now :)
By the way I would just like to point this out:
German way - horse collected through devices and/or realy tight reins, or even rollkur.
American way - reining horses collected on loose rein controlled by seat and legs.
Wow, it sure is interesting, the culture there. I wonder if this is true of all horse people there, or whether, as you say, since there are lots of schools, almost anyone can hang out a shingle and be a "trainer?" Maybe like dog obedience schools in the U.S.?
When we watch livestock interact with each other, sometimes they are rough. And when they are rough with us, sometimes we have to be rough back to send a message in their language. I'm with you, I wouldn't tolerate obnoxious behavior w/o standing my ground and saying "hey!". That horse will only get worse with time when he realizes it works for him. That's an awful big animal to be giving leeway for kicking. You're right, his bad day might be somebody's concussion! :-\
Lisa, I won’t be going back there, no worries.
Standardbredcrazy, I am compiling a list of riding lesson reviews from all over Germany. What I’m finding is …more of the same!
Heather, welcome. Next time I’m in your city, I want to meet you. I’ve never had a local show me around there.
Colliefarm, all horse trainers must be certified in Germany. (Actually, all professions, even a clerk, requires a certificate in this land of red tape). I just don’t think this certificate can possibly mean anything of value, when I see such crappy lessons where students receive so little feedback.
I'd be glad to show you around my city! We would also have to plan time to go visit Varian Arabians, only about 3 hours away but well worth it!
I read this post when it first went up and have spent 3 days shaking my head, trying to think of something helpful to say.
...still haven't thought of anything....
"he's having a bad day". NO SYMPATHY, people. If my Dragon has a bad day, she still gets her ear fwanged if she tries to kick,and she STILL has to work. My boss treats me the same way when I'm having a bad day, btw.
Bah.
ya - that is one unhappy horse and you aren't to blame. (and criminy - give him a carrot as a reward for kicking?? sheesh. i would have done more than yank on his halter).
I think you should go back for one more lesson on that horse, and do just what you said! step off the horse in the middle of the lesson, hand him to the gal and say Can you hold him for a minute - and leave!!!!!! >bweg<
You will find a decent horse to ride, or you'll get your own and won't have to go through the Germanic automaton riding lessons! (Or come visit here for a fun endurance ride!!!!!)
- The Equestrian Vagabond
I am continually amazed at the stories you post of the German riding and training "habits". This is almost the worst version of horsemanship I've come across, right up there with certain natural horsemanship types who never actually get on the horse. How frustrating. Or, if you can see it as Becky does, how ridiculous and downright amusing.
What the . . . . that woman is absolutely, completely and totally DISGUSTING!!!!!!!! She is NOT a trainer and she is NOT a nice human being! She thinks you're brutal??? When she's the one who pulls back and saws on the poor horses mouth and yet won't discipline the horse for kicking?? Just asking for trouble. I don't know what else to say. I'm speechless!
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