My husband took all this video, I'm so thankful to him for this!
I see a lot of different things going on in his stride and structure. I wonder if you will see the same things.
This is his first time being ridden by a stranger and I'm the second person he's carried down the trail.
Walking towards us with owner riding
Lytha riding back and forth
Lytha dismounting ungracefully
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18 comments:
I'm no expert on confirmation at all. I'm not crazy about the shape of the hoof trim and I would love to see him out of his shoes with a good barefoot trim. Just my bias.
Some of his movement with his legs may be just youth as he didn't seem quite what to do with his feet - that might have been the other rider. You did a better job keeping him straight.
I love the bay marking - always been one of my favorites.
I will be interested to hear what you have to say for my education.
Dan
He looks awkward.?? A 5 year old shouldnt be that awkward.
Also a bit straight in the hock.
Does he have a rough trot?
I see the low pastern you mentioned before now. His conformation in the hind end is weird. LOL for lack of a better description.
He would probably be fine for trail riding. Eventually I would guess, he will break down in the hock. If you want to compete again, his conformation would make me think twice about him.
Blogger asking you to pay???? Whats this?
Oh, I think his feet look better this time, not as much toe. Was he done recently?
Dan, of course I want to get his feet under my personal, loving care!: ) I can only see improvement there, since the hooves are pretty good despite crappy trims.
Rddunappy, he is very awkward. You are right. But I attribute that to this being his 7th time carrying a human and I weigh a lot more than the only other one who was on top of him. I think you can see how carefully I was riding him, from my leg, I was passive and minimal. He needs to find his balance with a rider. But still he was better than I'd expected. I rode a 4 year old a few months ago that made me kiss the ground afterwards: )
I have sent these vids to my vet, as well as still captures. This amount of flexion worries me but I know that the opposite is also a risk (Baasha).
Apparently I have exceeded my image data limit with Blogger. I await Funder's advice.
To answer your question, I don't know. The shoes look worn down, but they did say she rode him twice since I'd been there last.
I agree that a 5 year old shouldn't be that awkward, DEPENDING on how much experience they've had. Lytha mentioned he's been ridden only a few times, what was it 7? That IMO can justify the awkwardness.
I'm not expert with confo but he looks weak in his hind end. If that's not due to some structural problems he may gain strength & muscle with regular work.
As I really don't know a lot about this I look forward to reading other's opinions :)
He is soooo cuuuuute!! That's all I have to say. :)
-Becky
Well my boy was still pretty awkward at five, so I'm not sure that he won't improve in that department. I did notice he doesn't track up well at the walk, does he at the trot? Or w/o a rider?
I think it's kind of hard to judge his way of going when he's been ridden so little. Some horses tend to have more trouble adjusting to the weight of a rider than others- and then there's always what I call "the wet noodle" type young horse that can't seem to walk in a straight line at first with a rider.
He does look to have a nice heavier bone than a lot of arabs I see out there. I'd be curious how he would do with a few months of serious riding. Any chance they'd be interested in a lease to try him out? He seems like a sensible guy!
His hind legs seem really straight. Almost stilted. I am no expert and could be completely wrong, especially when it comes to Arabians [you'd know what to look out for, I'm sure.]
He seems eager and willing to work with you. :)
The slow motion videos always make things look odd and awkward. I'd love to see the videos ran normally and see how he moves.
He does seem a little springy on his hind end...possibly due to his hocks being rather straight, but I have seen many Arabians with this same sort of spring in their rear end, too. The awkwardness that seems to be there in the slow motion is probably due to his inexperience. I noticed that he momentarily lost his balance when you jumped off, but he gathered himself up quickly, too.
You didn't look too heavy for him. In fact the two of you looked well proportionate.
The most important questions to ask yourself are:
1)Do you like him? Is there any connection?
2)Does he ride comfortably?
3)Is he willing and does he try?
4)Does he make your heart fill with joy?
Personally, from the videos, photos and posts you have shared, I don't see anything about him worth turning your nose up. He's the perfect size, he's attractive, he moves well, and I do think you like him.
But it seems to me that you are trying to find any little thing wrong with him...perhaps because you are still not sure about taking the next step?
I love him already...and I would be very surprised if you said you didn't.
~Lisa
ps I've been paying for Google Photo Storage for 3 years now. As you know I post hundreds of photos on my blog, so it's worth it to me. I only pay $5.00 a year. Pretty cheap, don't you think?
Oh and I just wanted to add: I've watched a lot of videos of horses legs on comformation and especially pastern angles and flexion. I don't see the lax flexion that can be seen with weak pasterns. In fact, his pasterns recover quickly after each step. The flexion I see looks more like excellent shock absorbers.....for a much comfier ride.
~Lisa
I'm sending this link to Patty R, who is not only my riding partner and a vet, she is ALSO in the process of training a 5-year-old greenie.
Here's what I see: his feet are healthy, but the side-to-side trim is wonky, he's high on the outside of both front feet so he "catwalks" in front. Good trim will make a huge difference.
He also has an awkward, almost random footfall...which is EXACTLY what I saw with Patty's horse his first few times on the trail with her (maybe 10th time on trail in his life). She does arena work and trail work with him now, slow and easy. He is getting more graceful on trail with a rider--getting used to carrying a new rider is hard for baby horses, their brains are still smooth and uncomplicated!
Overall, he reminds me VERY much of Patty's horse, who is an absolute star. If this horse is as endearing in real life as he is on film, buy him and don't look back!
AARENE, that would be SO NICE!!! if patty would take a look. i say, two vets are much better than one! and, we're all human, we all see different things based on our experience. and there is a lot to see here.
becky, i'm glad you're following this: )
cg, the heavy bone is the first thing i noticed about him and got me excited. but the legs have their good points and their bad points and now i just have to weigh them all against each other.
ABS, i agree. very worrisome.
we should ask Pony Girl to chip in, she's got a horse whose legs resemble this. i can guess what her input would be.
Lisa, i knew someone would ask for regular speed vids! *lol* it took me forever to post those so i'm not going to go to the trouble to do more right now at least. trust me the slow motion shows things that regular speed didn't (to my eyes). (the arc of travel is easier to discern, and the heel or toe first landings.)
to answer your questions, yes i like him a lot but i'm very afraid of what the vet's gonna say, so i'm not letting my heart go out to him.
he rides way better than the 4 year old that had been ridden regularly, that chestnut who was having a mini-heart-attack every couple minutes on the trail.
you asked about comfort - well, it's hard to be comfortable on a baby horse for the first time. his gaits are fine but if you ask aarene, i am totally numb to bad gaits so it's not a priority for me.
my heart is as cold as i can keep it for now. so far i have not let my heart go out to any horse except wiszi, who i still think about every day and wonder what the heck happened last week when her ad disappeared from the site. the odd thing is amja and wizsi are neighbors - they both live in the same town! and the price isn't so different.
I can only talk from my experience, which is my horse, who I bought very green at 6, looked similar. I had videos, and was watching before I bought, and he looked like a drunk walking! Trotting I thought he looked too close behind. And his croup was too sharp, with almost no hindquarters. Most of this changed when he started work, though he'll always have a tiny arab butt, he is the slighter type.
I know you said your heart is hardened, and I completely understand, but I do think you need to feel a bit, the horse has to speak to you. I bought my horse on a good vet check from an endurance vet, but my heart said he was the one when he was friendly and brave on a trail ride, and I knew I liked his personality. That being said, we've had our moments!
Good luck, I commend you taking your time to find a new partner, and also for putting it out there for us all to comment on and critique. No matter what any of us say, you've seen him in person. (And I do love a cute bay)
I am not going to voice any thing about conformation or movement, because honestly, I know so very little!
I chose by heart, not head (oops) when I chose...Boo was a greenbroke (granted not real real green) 4 year old, and it was his personality that truly caused me to want him..
Caesar was given to me, so I didn't really choose him either by conformation. I chose to take him through friendship.
So honestly, if your heart is wanting that mare, and if you think she can do what it is you want, I say go get her....:)
I know, its not the simple, :(
Tara
The dismounting video is my favorite. Here's why: You stop him (a young greenie with no balance and no real concept of contact) and yes he gapes his mouth and tosses his head a little, but his feet stay stopped. To me, that says he doesn't have his own agenda top-of-mind. That makes up for a ton of nitpicky conformation issues, IMO.
I like CG's comment about the wet noodle. My last two were like that when I got them. You can see he isn't reaching with his front feet, which to me means that he wants to keep them under himself for balance. That's an issue of experience and confidence.
My only remaining question would be what he's like without the other horse there as a crutch.
Shana B's horse, Sinwaan, has a really similar hind end both shape and posture. I've never known him to have a problem with lameness, and he's... 14? 15?... this year and does plenty of road miles.
irish horse, thanks for that: )
tara, i guess someone who could afford her bought her. or maybe not. wish i knew!
ruth, i liked how the owner rode him off first, without the other horse, to show me he'll go off on his own without her. of course, she wasn't that far away.
ruth, has sinwaan completed a lot of endurance rides? i see that he does have similar hind legs.
thanks for your comments. i will let you know when i hear from my vet.
i should finally state my observations:
post-legged and coon-footed while weight bearing behind
LF slightly over at the knee
RH turned out dramatically
regarding motion: as he walks, his arc of travel with his RF is odd - it curves in and then out. this might be a hoof issue, i don't know.
i don't want to talk about the hooves because obviously they are causing his tripping and contributing to young horse coordination problems due to such crappy work. the hooves are the least of my worries! (after the mane, wrong side!)
but his legs have great bone, and that is something i cannot do without. i simply won't buy a fine boned horse.
I don't know enough about evaluating to comment much, but he is such a cutie and I enjoyed the videos. Why was your dismount ungraceful? Looked great to me. :D
Someone mentioned he doesn't track up much at the walk. I noticed that too, but I think it's because he was always on the edge of jigging which can cause that to walk short strided. It could also be because he's not used to carrying weight so he's taking shorter steps like when we are carrying something heavy. Can you get video of his movement without a rider?
Oh and I did go back and look at some videos of Chrome because I never really paid much attention to how much the pasterns drop at the walk . . . and Amja's do seem to drop more than normal. I'd be really interested to see what the vet says . . .
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