This is called adapting to a new culture. That's why there's a ziplock bag of poo in the fridge. Just try to follow Fugly's recent advice about deworming a horse every 8 weeks in Europe. Just try to find a vet who will endorse that idea. It's not just Fugly, it's widely held that good horsekeeping involves rotating wormers every couple months. 20 years I've done this with the following: Anthelcide (Oxibendazole), Ivermectin, Strongid (Pyrantel), and recently Panacur (Fenbendazole), and Praziquantal). My new vet resisted strongly when I called him up to get some Oxibendazole. (You have to get wormers from vets here - no going into a feedstore for meds.) I've heard it before, after all, Baasha has been here 8 months, and I've managed to convince my last vet to give me 3 of those listed above in that time. Those days are over.
BRAINWASHING by the pharmaceutical companies, that's what he calls it. Commerce, it's our money they want, he said. "You do not need to give a horse preventative worming. It goes against good medicine to treat for something that may not be needed. Test the horse for worms." I argued, "The tests don't always show certain types of worms, and the tests need to be done at the exact right time in the worm's lifecycle to show up at all - that's too risky for me."
He convinced me to take several samples over several days and keep them in the fridge and we'll test them all. I personally don't see anything wrong with dosing a horse with harsh chemicals every 8 weeks on the possibility of worms. Baasha handles worming well - he's never acted ill. But oh well, our lives are different now.
The vet did agree that every 8 weeks is warranted in a situation where many horses live together in not-pristine conditions. He said "You have one horse. He's old. Don't do it."
I read a lot online to keep my facts current. I know many people worm on an individual basis, and don't subscribe to the 8 week rule. I was shocked to see how seldom it's done in Europe. They say Ivermectin in winter, and then test them the rest of the year and see. The tests cost as much as the meds, so...hm.***
Lately this blog is not about my horsey adventures, it seems to be a log of veterinary visits. I am having a hard time convincing my man that twice monthly vet visits are not the norm...This morning at 7 AM my man came in from feeding Baasha his morning carrot and said "You'll need to call the vet today - Baasha's eyes are bad again." I got dressed and ran out there. Both eyes swollen and crusty. Runny nose too. What the heck. I immediately cooked some water and gave him hot compresses on each eye for 15 minutes. He seemed to like it, rubbing into the wet towel. I had to wait until a reasonable hour to call our vet, and when I did, he said he'd be right there.
Poor Baasha is allergic to something here. I think it's all the blooming elderberry that's everywhere right now, but the vet says it's the newly mown fields. My horse - allergic to grass? Good heavens, I hope that's not the case. Well, Baasha never had allergies before, so it's something in Germany. *sigh* Good thing I had a tube of hydrocortisone leftover from last time. He'll have to get that 3 times a day again. Poor thing!
(The vet leaned his arm across Baasha's back as he talked to me.)
The vet took his temp and it was good at 37,5 degrees. I said "Hey, what's that in Fahrenheit - I have no idea if that's OK or not!" and he said "Well we have no idea what Fahrenheit is here, so you'll have to learn" and he gave me a slip of paper with normal horse temps on it, in Celsius. He also gave me a thermometer, cuz he says my digital is no good - he says digitals are not as accurate. I said "Well, mercury is not legal anymore in the states in thermometers!" He was like "What's that? Mercury?" I said "Yah, like the planet." He was fascinated: ) He gets to learn a little bit each time he visits me, and I get to learn German horse culture from him.
As soon as we were distracted and talking, Baasha snuck by us and halter, lead rope and all, took himself out to the farthest part of the pasture he could reach. I found him later, lead rope still swung over his back.
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15 comments:
Poor Baasha! I sure hope his eyes clear up soon Lytha. Please give that handsome mug a rub from me!
Argh! If I had to waste all my time and money collecting manure and running tests for worms, I'd go nuts. Do they do package checks at the post office if you order some wormer from the states? I'm sure you don't want to do anything illegal, but I'm just curious as to how they enforce preventing people from ordering prescription medications over the Internet without a prescription in this case.
I've had a horse trainer tell me not to worm more often than every 12 weeks since you are essentially putting poison into the horse's system. Then I had a vet insist that it must be done either daily with the Panacur Power Pac or once every 6 weeks with paste. Now when people ask how often I worm, I just say 8 to 10 weeks, because that usually prevents an argument.
mm - yes, i will: )
nm - avoiding an arugument by saying 8 to 10 weeks, imagine the arguments you'd start here! hehehehe
to be clear, i can get the drugs if i insist, but it's against his recommendation. my last vet argued, but then caved and gave me what i asked for the 3 different times i've wormed here in germany. germans are like, "you've wormed your horse three times in 8 months!?!?!"
funny what they stop in the customs office. my birthday pacakge arrived from seattle, and customs had a big issue with it cuz it was smoke alarms. i think they couldn't fathom why someone would ship smoke alarms. my aunt just wants us to be safe. hey, and i figured out why smoke alarms aren't common here: everyone smokes. ahahahhahahaha
but another time, i got an enormous tube of neosporin and it didn't get stopped in customs. it's THREE antibiotics in ONE tube! each one of those ingredients is not allowed without prescription here. pure randomness, i think, is what customs uses to stop packages.
prescription meds: ibuprofen! my mom is always sure to give me a huge supply of it before i return. i love sharing it with germans cuz they're just so grateful.
what's NOT prescription is interesting to me: contact lenses. isn't that odd? but oh my the prices. i'll be buying lots next month!
your horse trainer is right - worming is poison, but it's so specially designed, most wormers you can overdose at incredible amounts and do no harm to an otherwise healthy horse. that's a pretty safe poison in my mind. (a couple of them you really had better not overdose though!)
geez, i didn't think to ask about daily dewormers - i wonder what germans think of that!
but now i'm wondering about the panacur power pac - how much of the recent promotion of this is due to vets endorsing the pharmaceutical firms? (especially cuz why suddenly is this so important?)
you bring up good points, thanks, i'll be pondering this all night now: )
~lytha
I've done rotational worming and daily wormer (Strongid) plus twice yearly paste worming. It's interesting the cultural differences! Testing for worms really isn't a bad idea, although it's a hassle. Also I think resistance to certain dewormers may be different in Europe and the US. I think all methods can be effective if they are done consistently.
Good luck with the allergies - poor horse!
We were doing monthly worming at our old barn, now I'm sliding to every 6 weeks.
Hmm.
Smart Baasha heading for the far end of the field. I'm sure he's had enough of vets for a while.
(verification word: muccu. darn close to mucus...)
The less chemicals the better. Americans are brainwashed by pharma to dose everything, human and animal, with a chemical cure. Id try to go with the German way and ease off. Dogs in America are being poisoned every day by some drug company selling dangerous meds to pet owners. The topical flea and tick treatments are now being investigated for high toxicity and killing dogs. All those worming chemicals are just unnatural and cannot be healthy, they just cant.
but how is the horse after the accident?
It must be hard to deal with the different procedures in Europe. Worming is so important to me I would probably go crazy there. When we were in a situation where the pasture and conditions were bad we actually put them all on the daily wormer it was the only way to protect them.
Maybe if you know someone here they could send you the wormers you need. I know when my daughter was in Scotland with her horse I sent her over Stud Muffins(a treat) and when I had to declare what it was at FedEx, the woman looked at me like I had two heads.
I think deworming is neccesary but its been handled wrong here in North America.
We're always being told that the parasites are becoming resistant. On the other hand having to pay for fecal tests all the time would be a pain too.
Smart Baasha, he thought that a discussion about Celcius and and Mercury were boring, too. lol!
And he probably didn't appreciate being leaned on like a wall, from the vet either. heheh!
Twice a month vet visits over here would prohibit many folks from owning a horse. gah!
~Lisa
ps Feel better Baasha. You have gorgeous eyes when they're aren't all sore and crusty.
We were THRILLED to learn that our field hasn't had livestock on it for at least a dozen years--and chances are, now has a very low parasite load here. Hooray!
I did a panacur purge (5 days of fenbendazole, no I can't spell it) before the mares left the old place; will follow local vet recommendations for the schedule after that.
I pity the customs people who go through your luggage when you head back to Germany this summer, Lytha.
"Are you carrying any toxins?" they'll ask, and you'll answer, "Only for parasites, you government employee, you...."
Mine get the daily dewormer and purge wormed every 12-16 weeks.
I'd be glad to send you some wormer, if they'll get thru customs.
Oops, I should have been clear. I can get the meds, but only with a lot of prodding the vets: ) This time my vet convinced me to test, so I will test first. We'll see what happens!
Thanks for the offers for help!!
In Britain the usual way would be to worm maybe four times a year rotating two wormers. It is also instilled in horse owners that droppings need to be removed frequently from grazing areas. This regime seems to work quite effectively.
You might also put a few sheep in with Baasha. Sheep and horses are complementary in the sense that they tend to eliminate one-another's parasites.
I have heard of people trying "homeopathic wormers". The results were bad, indeed very bad - huge worm burdens because, not surprisingly, homeopathic quackery does not kill parasites.
Testing for worm burden is also becoming more common here, and is easy to arrange. Vets would regard it as a nice way to offer a service that makes them a bit of money. It makes sense to analyse the "problem" before deciding on the "treatment", if any is needed. Both for the good of the horse and because wormers are expensive.
It also makes sense to think carefully before accepting as fact anything that ranting Fugly and her taliban-esque followers espouse. I would treat them with a pinch of salt and a bargepole.
WHP - Fugly reiterated what I've always been taught, and since it's so different here, I used her blog to bring it up. Well, and her post reminded me to count how many weeks it's been since I've wormed.
I'm not really clear on how sheep break the parasite cycle - I know they have different worms so the horse worms cannot use their bodies as hosts, but what stops the worms from going right back into my horse?
I'm missing something here - I hope you can explain it to me.
~lytha
I don't get the sheep thing either. We have sheep and a horse and notice no difference in the worm load around here. It's also kind of disgusting how the sheep poop and pee just about everywhere they walk and stand. Horses would have a hard time just finding areas of grass that have not been covered in sheep urine and feces.
Sheep do tend to be easier on the grass in that they don't tear the grass right out by it's roots, like horses often do.
But I don't get the parasite argument involving sheep.
We have friends who swear by using diatamacious Earth (sp?). They've been using it daily as a natural wormer on their icelandic and rocky mountain horses for over a year and every time the vet tests their horses for worms, it comes back negative.
They haven't used a chemical based wormer for over a year.
~Lisa
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