Everyone I talk to here, and all the german online horse forums I read, say that worming a horse is something for the vet to worry about, not the owner. Back at the riding school, when I rode that skinny TB mare, I pestered her owner, "When will you worm her?""ME? Never. The vet, next time she comes."
"Well, when does the vet come to worm?"
"Oh, in a few months."
AGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH. Skinny mare not getting any fatter without it!
You may recall I went to a horsey shop and asked the owner, "Where are the wormers?" and she said, "This is Germany. You can't buy wormer. You have to get it from your vet."
Angry lytha. How annoying.
Before my horse arrived, I asked the barn owner what wormer she gave last, and when we'd do the next one. She said, "August, Ivermectin." I said, "Perfect. Same here."
Normally I'd worm with Strongid 8 weeks later. But this is Germany. The owner said, "I'll go to the vet and get whatever wormer he recommends in November."
Nov 1 I said, "What type did he recommend?"
"Oh, I meant December. I worm 4 times per year."
AAAAGHHHHHHH. My horse's ribs show. He just had his teeth done and he's getting all the food I can possibly think of. One thing is missing: a nice Panacur power pack.
I asked if we could get this, and she said she'd ask the vet.
From everything I've read, in Germany, horse owners really leave the "mysteries" of worming to their trusted veterinarians. Even people in the online forums who seem to be experienced horsepeople. Even my barn owner, who, as an endurance rider, has a very high standard of care. Most people in Germany have the vets worm their horses 2 or 3 times per year. 4 times per year is a lot apparently. And BTW, all the medicines are the same as what we have in the US - just the brand names are different.
I think I'm gonna have to talk my husband into calling some vets for me, and getting some information. I don't know how that works in Germany. I plan on getting my own vet when we move, and using the barn owner's until then. I have a big language barrier when it comes to horse nomenclature, especially medical horse nomenclature. I feel a little helpless here, and I just want to buy some freaking wormer.
So here is a question for all of you experienced horse people. When a horse lives with a herd, how important is it for all the horses to be wormed together? I mean, should I go out and visit a vet, get the vet to give his blessing or whatever on a particular worming paste, and then worm my own horse separately - or is that a total waste? In the past I've wormed him separately from other horses, but people seem to stress that herds should be wormed together. How important is that?
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10 comments:
I don't know about the importance of worming a herd together. I just do it because it is convenient, but it does make sense to keep all the horses on the same schedule. It sounds like you need someone from the states to send you a Christmas package. ;)
That's a really really good question. I hope someone comes up with a good answer for you. My guess is that worming would be more of an individual thing since it's taking care of the internal parts of the horse.
I wonder if the location/environment means there are less parasites in Germany, hence less concern about it.
It sure is interesting getting a different perspective on horse care hearing from you in Germany!
nm, i am leery of asking my family to send me medicines cuz isn't that illegal? and i can get the right wormers here, i just have to figure out exactly how (a trip to the vet i guess).
jackie, i wondered that too, and i see people clean up their paddocks and fields a lot more than back home, but we have all the same worms here, from all the reading i've done. same climate (but more snow), same latitude, same internal parasites, and the same medicines to treat them. but a whole nother world when it comes to GETTING the meds.
*kicks dirt*
In my experience, if horses are on pasture they will pick up more parasites. That said, it is pretty cold there in Germany which would tend to kill the worms in the winter. Google some of the lifecycles of worms, and that may help you. If his condition is poorer than you want, it wont hurt him to worm him at all, he just may pick up more right away without the "herd" being done. I think we worm to often here in the states, there are areas where the worms are resistant to the chemicals, and that is not a good thing. Wormers were the best thing that happened to our horse husbandry in the 1960s ( I think,so wormers have not been available for that long, time wise ) our horses are healthier than ever, but over use has caused problems, thus the preaching on rotation of chems, and they have not come up with any new types of wormer in a long time. So spareingly worming is not a bad thing either, that may be a thing to ask vets over there about, parasite resistance to wormer chems. and if it is a problem in Germany. Just my 2 cents.
Oh geez you found my soapbox LOL There is another worming regimine I dont believe in, unless you are competeing in high $$$ shows. ie cutting, reining, show jump/cross country, maybe a few others. feeding a daily wormer, some people do it all a horses life. what happens if they sell said horse and the new owner does not keep that up? the horse has had no oportunity to build up immunity to parasites at all. so wammy you end up with a sick horse on overload. The only reason I say it may be ok for competition horses is that it may give them the smallest extra edge thats needed to be top in competition, because they get that much more out of the food they eat. LOL just my opinion again.
-gets off soapbox-
I don't think it is necessary to worm herd mates at the same time. Many of us do for convenience sake, and I do not see how worming your horse would be ineffective just because the heard mates are not wormed at the same time.
The wormer paste will do it's job, to rid the body of parasites, whether or not the herd mates get the same treatment.
A wormer kills the worms in the horse at the moment it's administered. It has no lasting effect, therefore the horse can pick up a new worm immediately after.
If your horse has a large amount of worms in his system right now, worming him will get rid of the current infestation. But in the long term worming horses individually is much less efficient at controlling the worm population in the herd environment than worming collectively.
Wormers are controlled substances in Europe in order to minimize the risk of the worms acquiring drug resistance. Some species of strongilid are already highly drug resistant. Both human and animal drugs are much more controlled in the EU than in the US - that doesn't mean you can't get the drugs you need, but you just need the doc/vet to prescribe them, thereby ensuring that you're actually getting the appropriate meds in appropriate amounts. And yes, it would be illegal to have wormer sent over from the US.
Call the vet, he'll take a fecal sample to analyze for worms, and if there are worms he'll prescribe the appropriate wormer. If there aren't worms, he won't prescribe a wormer.
In Denmark (and I'm guessing in Germany) most large barns have the vet analyze a number of random samples from the herd twice a year, and if there are worm problems, the entire herd is dewormed. No problems = no drugs.
My horse was given a wormer when I bought him, but hasn't needed one since (almost 2 years). I wouldn't dream of giving him a dewormer "just in case," why give him drugs he doesn't need?
It makes sense to deworm the herd together otherwise the non-treated horses just continue to shed parasites (dump parasites??)
That said, there are times when it is feasible to deworm an individual. If Baasha has a higher than normal parasite load it would be a good idea to treat him even if his herdmates are not being dewormed.
This happened last fall with Cessa. She was thinner than normal so the vet did a fecal count. She had a heavy parasite load so I dewormed her and then did a second deworming 2 weeks later. She's now back on schedule with the rest of her herd.
Can you feed a probiotic when you can't worm? Then your horse is getting nice gut flora and the full benefit of everything he eats. I am a huge fan of probiotics and they are not at all harmful to the horse - quite the reverse. I always give it at least 3 times a week all winter long.
I'm calling the vet today to see what he says (assuming I can understand him). I got good news last night: the barn owner's vet recommends a rotation schedule of ivermectin, pyrantel, and oxibendazole. That is exactly what I have always done (just, more often!).
It seems people in Europe worm less often because they clean up paddocks and fields more than we do. Hence my confusion when I first saw the pasture two-part tool that I'd never seen at any stable in the US. (See previous post about odd German horse catalog stuff if you'd like ot see a pic of this contraption that took me forever to learn to use (and I still think the horses laugh at me when I do.))
RE: Daily wormer - you're right Reddunapp... I worry about horses who started life on it and have switched homes and no longer receive it. Safer to avoid or only use on your "lifers": )
Cdncowgirl, your example is a good one for when to worm only one horse, and perhaps my situation too, cuz there is 6 inches of snow all over the ground and no way the other horses' worms can reinfest my horse anytime soon. At least, I think, while it's zero degrees outside, I don't have to worry about immediate reinfestation.
FL - Probiotics were in his American meals, an ingredient in his Allegra senior feed. Now that I'm here, I have the lovely task of trying to find what's available and what's effective. My barefoot trimmer feeds and recommends feeding EM - Effective Microorganisms. I said to her, "You mean probiotics?" and then went home to do some research. Have you heard of EM? Looks like it consists of probiotics and "prebiotics" (food for the probiotics). I'll look into it, cuz it was next on my list of things to do for Baasha. It's just so much more time-consuming here! The company that sells me my supplements doesn't offer probiotics. Hrmph.
Calling the vet now...
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